Wednesday, September 15, 2004
Reason to Get Offended?
So I have been thinking lately about the way I have observed christians respond to the comments others make about God. It seems that a good evangelical will not get upset (visibly at least) when the christian God is slighted, using the excuse that "unbelievers don't know any better." Which is perhaps true. Nevertheless, I have started to become less forgiving, feeling almost cranky, as I watch the world verbally stomp on the creator of the universe. And since I could not come up with a real good reason not to be mad, I have reacted differently. Recently in conversation a friend of mine compared God to magic. I immediately and forcefully objected, declaring that even God's miracles were not magic, that magic was man controlling nature, miracles were God interveneing in his Creation. One is unnatural and selfish, the other is natural, ordered, and benevolent. (Here I use "natural" not to mean naturalistic but "within the established order.")
Even when I am forceful, I am not that threatening, nevertheless my friends noticed that I had taken offense and backtracked. I may have come accross as an easily offended, closed minded bigot, or I may have come across as a sincere person who had real (and reasonable) attachments to his beliefs. I hope it was the latter, but I can not be sure.
So here is the question. Does God need defending? Or, better stated, should christians defend God in dialogues with non-believers, or should we simply ignore slights to our God. Is it our place to set the record straight? Let me know what you think, and how you respond in similar situations.
So I have been thinking lately about the way I have observed christians respond to the comments others make about God. It seems that a good evangelical will not get upset (visibly at least) when the christian God is slighted, using the excuse that "unbelievers don't know any better." Which is perhaps true. Nevertheless, I have started to become less forgiving, feeling almost cranky, as I watch the world verbally stomp on the creator of the universe. And since I could not come up with a real good reason not to be mad, I have reacted differently. Recently in conversation a friend of mine compared God to magic. I immediately and forcefully objected, declaring that even God's miracles were not magic, that magic was man controlling nature, miracles were God interveneing in his Creation. One is unnatural and selfish, the other is natural, ordered, and benevolent. (Here I use "natural" not to mean naturalistic but "within the established order.")
Even when I am forceful, I am not that threatening, nevertheless my friends noticed that I had taken offense and backtracked. I may have come accross as an easily offended, closed minded bigot, or I may have come across as a sincere person who had real (and reasonable) attachments to his beliefs. I hope it was the latter, but I can not be sure.
So here is the question. Does God need defending? Or, better stated, should christians defend God in dialogues with non-believers, or should we simply ignore slights to our God. Is it our place to set the record straight? Let me know what you think, and how you respond in similar situations.
Comments:
I think that God doesn't 'need' to be defended, but I've always had a policy of engaging people in thoughtful discussions about God, if they are open to it. I did have one aquaintance say 'F*** God', and there's not much you can do about that.
I guess I take critism of Christians fine, but critisms of God more personally. If they are going to say God is naturalistic in any way I would probably discuss. I think it's hard to come across as 'unbigoted' or 'unbiased' in such a discussion, because you are biased one way. But the line 'I understand your point' always works wonders in discussions like that... :-) Good luck!
10lees
I guess I take critism of Christians fine, but critisms of God more personally. If they are going to say God is naturalistic in any way I would probably discuss. I think it's hard to come across as 'unbigoted' or 'unbiased' in such a discussion, because you are biased one way. But the line 'I understand your point' always works wonders in discussions like that... :-) Good luck!
10lees
# posted by 
: 9/16/2004 1:07 AM
: 9/16/2004 1:07 AM
Ugh, this one has been a hard one for me as well. I have tried both approaches and have had some reservations about both. On one hand, when I say nothing, or little, I am left feeling angry and a little guilty. As if I am betraying God because I don't want to start something, or that I have given up an opportunity to defend Him. On the other hand I feel that sometimes it is best just to be quietly loving without causing a big stir... Really I think the best thing is somewhere in the middle. But I tend to go from one end to the other and then back again. I must say though if I feel I have passed up an opportunity to defend God when I feel I should have I am more likely to jump all over the next person that crosses my path with that subject. But I am by no means recommending that approach. lol :) As terrible as this is, it always comes down to how much energy I have at the time. And also how well I think the person on the other end of the conversation would take it. If I feel it would start a huge mess I tend to leave them with a look and leave the room. So, basically I do not have an answer for you. I have not come up with a good way of dealing with this problem at all!!!
On another note...
I had to cut Becca's hair!!!! I am sooooo sad. It is cute shorter but still very sad. She kept getting fleas!!! I think it is coming from the dogs in the area. After the 2nd and last time she got them I cut it short because it was so hard to look thru all of her hair. Sigh...
Ah well... it will grow back :)
Ok, well, when you read this keep in mind that I have just worked 10 hours and my mind is not very organized :)
Love always,
Dorothy
On another note...
I had to cut Becca's hair!!!! I am sooooo sad. It is cute shorter but still very sad. She kept getting fleas!!! I think it is coming from the dogs in the area. After the 2nd and last time she got them I cut it short because it was so hard to look thru all of her hair. Sigh...
Ah well... it will grow back :)
Ok, well, when you read this keep in mind that I have just worked 10 hours and my mind is not very organized :)
Love always,
Dorothy
# posted by : 9/16/2004 8:22 AM
: 9/16/2004 8:22 AM
Just because you're defending doesn't mean you have to be defensive, offending, or argumentative. You can clearly and nicely state your views without getting ruffled feathers or anything like that. There will ALWAYS be miconceptions of God and Christians, so you just can't let it get to you. Nor should you let it lie. God doesn't NEED defending, he's just fine without us, but you SHOULD state what you think, etc. It's all about witnessing. You're just discussing what you believe with another person: if you do so kindly and as clearly as you can, it makes as much of a difference as it would if you had made an airtight argument.
As for the magic thing, I take my page from Tolkien. I suppose you could call miracles magic, but they're not what you mean by using the word 'magic.' I had friends in high school that always got a little pushy with "why do you got to church?" "why don't you like to drink?" etc. Sometimes they were friendly as well, or curious, and I just gave them my honest thoughts and feelings on the subject, just like we were talking about our favorite movies. It went over well.
--Neal
As for the magic thing, I take my page from Tolkien. I suppose you could call miracles magic, but they're not what you mean by using the word 'magic.' I had friends in high school that always got a little pushy with "why do you got to church?" "why don't you like to drink?" etc. Sometimes they were friendly as well, or curious, and I just gave them my honest thoughts and feelings on the subject, just like we were talking about our favorite movies. It went over well.
--Neal
# posted by : 9/16/2004 10:35 AM
: 9/16/2004 10:35 AM
Hey Bro! Does this mean you're not drifting left after all? ;-) Honestly, this is a problem that I have encountered numerous times since attending UMN, and it's really tough. Technically, no. God doesn't *need* defending, per se. But speaking the truth is is painfully necessary today, and I don't think you ought to ever question yourself for doing it, provided your manner and tone are gracious.
That said, there are probably times when it is more appropriate to be silent than to speak; this is entirely a question of context. What is the nature of the 'stomping'? Is it hostility, or is it carelessly flippant, or is it cynical? I would be more inclined to speak up to those who are careless or jaded (for whom I have less patience than I ought to have).... whereas with the the angry I have found that little can be accomplished with apologetics, and it is best only to extend love.
My ultimate thought, Steve, is that you have sound judgement. There are no rules that will carry you through every situation; you must stick to your conscience. The fact that you have even asked the question speaks to your sensitivity toward the matter. Even if you did speak unnecessarily, I have almost never heard you be rude, even in response to great offense... so I'm not worried about you being a "pushy Christian." :-)
Above all, pray for discernment. As James said, God gives wisdom freely to those who ask for it.
~Katie
That said, there are probably times when it is more appropriate to be silent than to speak; this is entirely a question of context. What is the nature of the 'stomping'? Is it hostility, or is it carelessly flippant, or is it cynical? I would be more inclined to speak up to those who are careless or jaded (for whom I have less patience than I ought to have).... whereas with the the angry I have found that little can be accomplished with apologetics, and it is best only to extend love.
My ultimate thought, Steve, is that you have sound judgement. There are no rules that will carry you through every situation; you must stick to your conscience. The fact that you have even asked the question speaks to your sensitivity toward the matter. Even if you did speak unnecessarily, I have almost never heard you be rude, even in response to great offense... so I'm not worried about you being a "pushy Christian." :-)
Above all, pray for discernment. As James said, God gives wisdom freely to those who ask for it.
~Katie
# posted by : 9/17/2004 9:00 PM
: 9/17/2004 9:00 PM
Two perspctives offer themselves to this tired thinker. One, we can engage the debate; two, we can offer friendship that seeks truth.
Both options are difficult, but the first has a probability of success that is "indistinguishable from zero." The second's probability of success IS distinguishable from zero, however low.
By the second option I mean to establish via well-crafted conversation a common feeling with the antagonist that we are permanently students, learning constantly from each other, and always open to critique and learning more.
Participation is entirely voluntary in this sort of friendship, and the very invitation is an extension of real grace. Once established, such common cause produces conversations that are honest and genuine and engaging.
After all, who's our neighbor?
Dad
Both options are difficult, but the first has a probability of success that is "indistinguishable from zero." The second's probability of success IS distinguishable from zero, however low.
By the second option I mean to establish via well-crafted conversation a common feeling with the antagonist that we are permanently students, learning constantly from each other, and always open to critique and learning more.
Participation is entirely voluntary in this sort of friendship, and the very invitation is an extension of real grace. Once established, such common cause produces conversations that are honest and genuine and engaging.
After all, who's our neighbor?
Dad
I appreciate the comments and believe that y'all (Im in the south now) are probably correct, but I can't help feeling like allowing contempt for my religion (or my God) to pass too easily will subconsiously create the impression that I don't really care about God, but just about the righteous identity that I get by calling myself a Christian, and thus that I am insincere. This seems counter productive to the relationship building that Y'all suggest. Within that relationship building, there needs to be mutual respect, which can be created only if the other person has some sense of how important God is. Then and only then will they associate God's work through me in their lives with its proper source.
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